Hot ‘n’ Heavier

Okay, the comments and emails about one of my recent posts regarding heavier women having more sex than their thin sisters brings up some good points:

From Rose –

It thrills me to see someone, or to be more specific, a MAN writing freely, and unabidingly on the topic of heavy-set women, and in such a positive way!

Thank you, for pointing out that women are our own worst enemies. Thank you, for showing that some people can actually look past an image to see who someone really is. And thank you, mostly, for not being afraid to show how you really feel on a subject that has become, sadly, very touchy to most people.

I honestly think that most men really don’t care about an extra few pounds on a woman, as long as she has a great attitude, is willing to accommodate, experiment, and compromise, and knows how to change the oil in her SUV.

I do think, however, that a lot of men don’t figure this out until a bit later in life. So, while high school boys and 20 year olds still think about the models they see in Playboy, at some point they wise up and get their priorities straight.

From Shoal –

I think that while more BBW are having sex, it is more to do with the lowered self-esteem that we let our culture feed us. If we aren’t thin, then we aren’t worth anything, so we will over compensate by being “easy” because we are finally getting attention. That is not really a good thing. I know that I personally have been more promiscuous due to my own lowered self-esteem.

This is something that comes up in other studies, and I think it’s worth mentioning, if only to address this issue: if indulging in sex is seen as a coincident with lowered self-esteem, it seems to imply that sex itself is seen as an undesirable, or at least, undervalued activity (i.e., “easy”). I wish that this study had some indication as to the degree of “overweight” attributed to the women. I mean, are we talking about women who are 20 pounds over average? 20 pounds over what is considered to be healthy? 60 pounds? 160? I think that perhaps this might give some insight as to whether or not it’s a self-esteem issue, or if it’s a body comfort issue.

And an email excerpt from (I think) a guy reader:

I don’t understand how you can spend the last year talking about exercise and trying to get yourself to looking all buffed and muscled and everything, and then turn around and talk about how chubby chicks are so hot and everything. Isn’t that a double standard? Why are you supposed to be trim and women aren’t? And if your so keen on looking all toned and healthy, then why aren’t you talking about how women should do the same?

Good point. Here I am, going on about how buffed and toned I’m trying to be, while at the same time I seem to be saying that one’s weight doesn’t matter.

Let me be clear: I’m not advocating that anybody do anything that creates a condition that is unhealthy. Let’s be aware that while there are some disagreements as to what weight, BMI, fat percentage, etc., is healthy or not, the fact is that at some point it will be too much for your body. What you do then is up to you.

That said, I don’t believe that I’m promoting any type of double standard. We all have our likes and dislikes, and none of us should feel guilty or ashamed for liking what we like, or being attracted to things that we enjoy. You like blondes with a large rack? Fine. You like tall, dark, handsome men? Fine. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t. But let’s remember that those of us who are attracted to something that’s not typical in our culture – whatever culture in which you live – are not wrong. . . nor are they right. They just have different standards.
Cher - A Les Toil Girl

As for my own, I’ve had to think about this for a bit. I started exercising and losing weight because of a health scare. I hadn’t expected the changes in my body, though. I mean, I knew that I’d lose weight and fit into smaller pants; but I had not anticipated the muscle definition and slight change in my body shape. Likewise, when Mrs. Edge was working out with me, she started developing a different shape, and even had some muscle definition of her own. It was, in some respects, like being with a different woman – just as for her it was like being with a different man.

Not better, mind you. Just different.

My own workouts have changed my body a bit, and while I’ve been joking about seeming vain about the whole thing, the truth is that I’m fascinated by watching it happen. I mean, I was in great shape in my 20s because I did a lot of outdoor work, but I haven’t seen that shape in almost 30 years. So, while I feel healthier – and the physicals at my doctor show that I am – I’m also enjoying the process of getting there. That’s certainly my prerogative, and it has nothing to do with what I find attractive in other people.

And in some respects, I find that this whole discussion parallels the discussions that we’ve had about older women: who the hell gets to make up the rules as to who or what we are supposed to find attractive in the first place? And how do I get myself voted onto that committee, anyway?

About Tom Allen

The Grey Geezer Dauntless defender of, um, something that needed dauntless defending. Dammit, I can't read this script without my glasses. Hey, you kids, get off my damn lawn!
This entry was posted in Appearance, Body Image, Health and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

11 Responses to Hot ‘n’ Heavier

  1. Wendy Blackheart says:

    Ok, as a fat chick about to have the LAP band done, I’ve got lots to say about fat chick sex.

    Sex and Self Esteem: There was a point in my life, and I’ve always been clear about this, where I put out to anyone, anytime, because I had low self esteem, and felt like this would somehow help. HOWEVER – I also suffer from depression, OCD, anxiety, and *very* mild mania (which results in me baking. Go figure.)

    However, these were all organic problems. I didn’t have low self esteem because I was fat, I had low self esteem because I was mentally and emotionally fried, and needed medication. Once I pulled myself together mentally, all the sex I had was totally because I wanted to have sex. Because I like sex.

    As for double standards and blah blah, I hear that shit too. “Wendy, why do you like skinny men who look like heroin addicts when you’re a big girl? Why don’t you like big guys? Thats *fair*”

    Well, fuck fair. For whatever reason, I like the people I like. I don’t expect fat guys to like me because I’m fat too. I expect people to like me for ME and hey, if I happen to fit their physical ‘type’ that rocks. Franklin wasn’t tall and skinny – he was just a hair taller than me, and a little fluffy in the middle. But I loved *him* not his body, and that goes for anyone. So, stuff changes. We’re all attracted to who we like for what ever reason, and so be it.

    And, lastly, as a fat chick who has been *all* about fat pride, I’ve been hearing just a tiny bit of shit about my getting banded to lose weight. I’m not doing it because I don’t like the way I look – I look damn good. I’m doing it because I too had a health scare. At 24, I shouldn’t be having chest pains, trouble sleeping, or sore knees (unless I’ve been giving a lot of head. THEN sore knees are ok.)
    I’m all about being comfortable who you are, how you are, if you like it – as long as you feel healthy!

    Tom, I think you made your choice to work out the same reason I did – there was something physically wrong and it was worrying you, and you wanted to fix it! So anyone who says thats a double standard…well, they’re dumb.

    End rant.

  2. Em says:

    I hear ya, Tom. All of it. Everyone has their own preferences… nothing wrong with it. And there is never anything wrong with being healthy. Being overweight is not healthy, there is no going around that. But, it doesn’t mean that men shouldn’t enjoy sex with overweight women, or that overweight women shouldn’t enjoy sex.

  3. Tom Allen says:

    Ok, as a fat chick about to have the LAP band done, I’ve got lots to say about fat chick sex.

    Wendy, thanks for weighing in… 🙂

    Seriously, you bring up a few issues that I wanted to elaborate on.

    I didn’t have low self esteem because I was fat, I had low self esteem because I was mentally and emotionally fried, and needed medication. Once I pulled myself together mentally, all the sex I had was totally because I wanted to have sex. Because I like sex.

    And there’s another example of the disconnect that we have in this society. You’d think that with all the cultural messages, that sex is good. Men lust for it. Women flaunt it. Advertising is full of it. But Eris help you if you want to have it, and you’re not a size 4 woman or a guy with no body hair and 6-pack abs.

    “Wendy, why do you like skinny men who look like heroin addicts when you’re a big girl? Why don’t you like big guys? Thats *fair*”

    And there it is again. We’re all “supposed” to be attracted to people within a small range of characteristics. If you fall in the average section of the curve, then you’re supposed to want to be with other people in the curve. Who the hell makes up these rules? We ridicule small or average guys who like big women, and we wonder why conventionally attractive women are with older, paunchier, or less attractive men. We have this mental range in which age differences are okay – or not. I’m dark complexioned and dark haired (well, I used to be) but I dated fair-looking blondes. Nobody accused me of skewing the numbers in the wrong pool. Why is that any different from my having dated heavier women?

    It’s not. The only difference is the tribes in which we tend to put ourselves.

    We like who we like. The random chemistry sets in our brains make us like some things at some times and not other things at other times. There’s nothing “fair” about this – but there’s nothing unfair, either. It is what it is.

    And, lastly, as a fat chick who has been *all* about fat pride, I’ve been hearing just a tiny bit of shit about my getting banded to lose weight.

    And here’s the flip side of all this: once somebody is on the island with us, then we don’t want to let them off. “Wendy, you’re here with the rest of us who have embraced our weightiness. If you lose weight, then you are betraying the tribe.”

    Give me a break.

    We humans are open to an almost infinite range of likes, temperaments, experiences, and desires. It’s bad enough that some of us limit ourselves – why do we feel the need to limit others?

  4. gillette says:

    I’m appointing you to that committee, Tom.

    Great post and discussion. Thanks for this.

  5. Digger Jones says:

    Thanks for expanding on this, Tom. I wanted to reply to the original, but had to wade through too many replies!

    I had a guy (who was overweight married to a gal who was overweight) explain the psychology of it. It is less about self-esteem as much as indulgence. Sure, self-esteem might be a player, but an appetite for feeling good plays a bigger role. Large folk like to eat because they enjoy it. Sometimes it brings comfort but it brings enjoyment more than anything and sex serves an analogous function. Fat girls bring enthusiasm to the table and to the bedroom and guys really, really dig enthusiasm. Decadent indulgence is a turn-on and women who are into that tend to be super sized. Women who are into self-denial tend to be skinny and prudish. Even if they ARE having sex it doesn’t mean they are enjoying it. I’ve found that sexual appetite and the appetite for other indulgences tend to be related.

  6. Wendy Blackheart says:

    Yay! I brought up issues!

    “And there’s another example of the disconnect that we have in this society. You’d think that with all the cultural messages, that sex is good. Men lust for it. Women flaunt it. Advertising is full of it. But Eris help you if you want to have it, and you’re not a size 4 woman or a guy with no body hair and 6-pack abs.”

    No no, sex is only good if you look the way you’re supposed to. Ugly people, fat people, old people, and all other non-beautiful people aren’t supposed to have sex! I even find that my own parents express amazement at the fact that I am popular with men, have boyfriends, and have sex. How could I? I’m fat and stuff.

    Even my LAP Band Surgeon seemed amazed that I was confident with the way I look (http://alittlebitless.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/the-doctor/) , and implied that he thought I was having this surgery done to fit in better with the scene, and because I was a sexual late bloomer (which, BTW, was my CHOICE!). When we live in a culture where even the doctors are judgmental like that, it’s very sad.

    “We like who we like. The random chemistry sets in our brains make us like some things at some times and not other things at other times. There’s nothing “fair” about this – but there’s nothing unfair, either. It is what it is.”

    This. Exactly this. Who we like is weird and random and it just happens. It isn’t fair!

    “And here’s the flip side of all this: once somebody is on the island with us, then we don’t want to let them off. “Wendy, you’re here with the rest of us who have embraced our weightiness. If you lose weight, then you are betraying the tribe.””

    Let me tell you, leaving the island is bloody hard. People often (intentionally or not) sabotage you. I’m lucky that I’ve got a suppourtive network of friends and family who understand that this is about my health. And hey, I’m still pro-adio! I like big curvy girls! I’m pro people looking however they feel comfortable – so long as they feel good and feel healthy. I was fine until my physical health started impacting me to heavily. When subway stairs make me wheeze, the though of a scene makes me tired, sleeping gets hard, and my knees hurt, its time to do something. Were I healthy, I’d be just the way I was before. Fat, curvy, sexy and happy.

  7. Fusion says:

    What a great discussion guys. Good luck Wendy on your surgery, and you sound like a really together woman to me!
    My wife chose gastric bypass because she had some health issues too, but mostly she thought it would make her feel better about herself. I knew it wouldn’t, and was right in the end. Your mental health and physical health are not related 9 times out of 10.

    And Tom! Weighing in? That was Baaddddd 😉

  8. Fusion says:

    Um, I should elaborate on that a little more. What I meant was your physical issues do not usually create your mental issues.

  9. Wendy Blackheart says:

    @fusion -Thanks! I go in for it on Monday. 🙂

    I have to agree with you – while how you look can affect the way you feel, it usually isn’t the root of the problems. I had issues long before I was fat, and I’m sure I’ll still have issues after. I’ll just, you know, be able to go up subway stairs w/o being winded. ^_^

  10. havingmycake says:

    Good Luck Wendy! Hopefully, the band will help to educate your brain to accept smaller portions and then you can continue the good work on your own.

    As I commented on your other post, it’s doubtful that anyone studied the data of the bodyweight of the men involved. Because everyone seems to be obsessed with the female body image. Male celebs and politicians dont get criticised for having a new wrinkle or a little extra padding, only the women.

    Ruf is not some skinny Adonis. He’s chunky. But what he has is body confidence. He is careful what he eats because of being a vegan and exercises hard but he’s still not one of these ‘cut’ boys that I always used to lust after. As Ive got older Ive come to appreciate the charms of the older man. They’re hairier, they have a little bit of body fat but a whole load of them have a six pack hiding under that layer and nice strong arms to put around you when they snuggle up. The cut boys are normally too busy admiring themselves in the mirror to do much of that.

    Ruf’s body confidence communicates itself to me, along with his compliments, making me more body confident as a result.

    Ipso facto, we have lots of fantastic sex…

  11. Tom Allen says:

    The cut boys are normally too busy admiring themselves in the mirror to do much of that.

    Ah. So, when Mrs. Edge complains that I spend too much time admiring myself in the mirror, she’s concerned that I’m going to turn into one of those pretty boy types?

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