Can we talk about fantasies?

Mrs. Edge and I have been re-evaluating our relationship lately. Nothing major or earth-shattering; we’ve just been spending more time talking about what kinds of things work or don’t work for us, and more importantly, why they do or don’t work.

Over the course of the last few months, I found myself trying to get her to understand what actually turns me on about some of my fantasies, and why I don’t need to act them out verbatim, as a script – something that she used to think I was asking for. And in talking about fantasies, I realized that there is a very common trope in femdomme related fantasy-land:  the woman who goes from Vanilla to Cruella overnight, and discovers that it’s her preference.

The stories usually go something like this: A guy is getting bored in his relationship, and spends more time masturbating to porn, and less time romancing his partner. She notices his lack of interest and becomes upset (alternately, she thinks he’s having an affair), and then begins to snoop. She then finds his secret porn stash, or browser history that he forgot to erase, or his links to FetBook, or whatever, and thinks to herself “If he wants a cruel bitch to dominate him, that’s exactly what he’s going to get, the bastard!”

The unsuspecting guy then comes home to find his partner dressed in a leather jumpsuit, dangling cuffs from one hand and swinging a crop with the other. Or Ms. Vanilla suggests a little light bondage one evening, and after he’s securely tied down, she changes into her newly bought Dominatrix outfit and then…

The stories usually end with the couple enjoying their new life, generally with the woman totally comfortable with her new role, and the guy expressing some kind of “Be careful what you wish for” ending.

Now, I know you’ve seen those stories out there. Chastity oriented tales end with the guy in longer lockups than he ever anticipated. BDSM fantasies end up with the guy being whipped, pegged, kept as a slave, whatever.

So, I was trying to explain to Mrs. Edge both these are such common tropes, and what men found so appealing about those sudden transformation stories. The only thing I could come up with is that they are in some ways a tale not so much about her gaining power as about his loss of it. But still, I’m at a loss to explain why it’s such a common theme, so I’m asking you, the kink brain trust, for some help in understanding this.

Anybody?


And while I’m thinking about dominant wives…

 

I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t mind too much if I came home to find Mrs. Edge dressed like this…

About Tom Allen

The Grey Geezer Dauntless defender of, um, something that needed dauntless defending. Dammit, I can't read this script without my glasses. Hey, you kids, get off my damn lawn!
This entry was posted in Chastity & Orgasm Denial, Communication, Dominance, Fantasies, Female Led Relationships, femdom, relationships, Sexuality & Relationships, Transformation and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.

29 Responses to Can we talk about fantasies?

  1. My answer requires its own blog entry…

  2. thumper says:

    After thirty seconds of deep thought, I’d say it’s about men fantasizing that their deepest and darkest desires will all be adopted by their otherwise unsuspecting wives and given back to them in their entirety. In these stories, she essentially becomes a mirror of his wants, even the ones he’s too afraid to admit or suggest (cuckolding, natch). She becomes his walking, talking dominatrix sex doll. The women are just sheets of paper to be filled with his story.

    If anything comes up in the next 30 seconds, I’ll you know. And I’m not saying it’s not a hot fantasy because it is. But real life is usually better.

    • Tom Allen says:

      In these stories, she essentially becomes a mirror of his wants, even the ones he’s too afraid to admit or suggest

      I think that this is the essence, although I’m still not clear on why the “origin story” fantasy is so common. Perhaps that’s where someone can become comfortable with their fantasies — where they allow themselves permission (via their changing partner) to have those thoughts and not feel ashamed.

  3. ptathuk says:

    Tom,

    Oh, dear. So the conversation is like:

    Her: So, it looks like your favourite colour is blue? (Yes, I know it’s really tight and shiny, but stay with me here.)

    Him: Yes, it is.

    Her: Why?

    Him: Erm… (This is the correct answer.)

    Her: What about green, or red.

    Him: Yes, they’re nice, but you got it right – I like blue.

    Her: But, why?

    Him: Erm… (This is still the correct answer. Not going to change!)

    I think it would take a Psychoanalyst to dig a little deeper, to uncover why YOU SPECIFICALLY like the colour blue. If you can get help making things blue, then a big thumbs up. Well done. And jealousy will get us all nowhere!

    ptathuk

  4. I think there are two extremes of BDSM (or Chastity or vanilla sex).

    At one end is what works best in real-life. For BDSM this is safe, sane, and consensual. And key is that what the other person thinks and feels is just as important as what you think and feel.

    Most of what is on the internet (stories, photos, or video) has been created to feed the fantasy of the viewer. It’s all about making the viewer feel more involved (feeding the fantasy) and nothing to do with connection with others. As thumper said above, the women are just sheets of paper to fulfill his fantasy.

    And because these fantasies are not real, just like a Hollywood car chase is more exciting if the rules of physics don’t apply, the fantasies are more powerful if the rules of what will work in real-life don’t apply either. (A great example with chastity is the ideal that a device be worn 24/7 when, as Tom Allen pointed out in a post a few months ago, taking the device off for things like exercise can take an unrealistic fantasy into a practical reality.)

    Jian Ghomeshi tried to convince the public that his non-consensual assaults were BDSM. Plenty of BDSM experts have written why what he did was not BDSM. But what I’ve not seen written about is what people like him would have been thinking when he did these things. Perhaps he thought he was doing BDSM – the type you see on the internet where the other person magically turns into their fantasy? What is clear is that he had no connection or compassion for the women he attacked.

    A Hollywood car chase is fun to watch, but not at all useful for learning how to drive. Fantasy BDSM and Chastity stories, and most vanilla porn, can be fun to read and watch, but are equally impractical to take into real-life. But unfortunately it seems than many are now defining BDSM according to the fantasy, and people seem genuinely surprised and disappointed that they can’t get it to work.

    How to get things to work? As Tom says at the top of the article – openly talk about fantasies and discuss what works and doesn’t work in practice. From this you can find some things that work for BOTH of you – and the resulting reality (even if it be mild) is much better than any fantasy.

    • Tom Allen says:

      the fantasies are more powerful if the rules of what will work in real-life don’t apply either.

      What? Most women dont’ suddenly deal with their partner’s kinks by adopting those same kinks? That’s crazy talk! I know, ‘cos I’ve seen it on the internet.

  5. cagedmonkey says:

    Personally, the appeal of orgasm denial and chastity is the concept of me being controlled by My Lady. She controls every aspect of my sexual pleasures – not only when I get to cum, but when I’m allowed to get an erection and when I’m allowed to have PIV. She, on the other hand, gets to have whatever she wants, whenever she wants. I guess the concept of unfairness plays into it as well.

    Recently, I’ve been having fantasies about being helpless and at My Lady’s mercy… and it’s up to her whether or not to torture and torment me or to use me for her pleasure… or both.🙂

    I’ve been putting together a post on this very subject, actually. Like Giles said, it really does need its own post!

  6. Robert Anthony says:

    Hi Mr Tom,
    It is a very common theme, right enough, and one which I have penned a story or two about too. I believe you have too if I remember correctly… the guy getting his cock swatted in the kitchen I believe rings a bell?
    Anyway, why is it so common. Well, my guess would be that if you want your fantasy to star your wife/partner/etc then it needs to start with her as you know her and end with her being your fantasy domme. So that’s the most direct route isn’t it?
    But I guess you are asking why it always ends up with the female enjoying it more than she thought and then pushing it further. I guess that’s because we always want to be pushed a little bit further and we want to feel ‘helpless’ to resist.
    Sorry I feel like I have given rather a simplistic and unworthy answer…

  7. ChkPrt says:

    It is the mirror image of the classic “swept off her feet by a man who knows exactly what she wants” romantic move fantasy. I think it’s a common theme because it relieves the man of responsibility and decision making. I also think it reflects a certain aspect of reality, that where our wives are a little more sexually aggressive.

  8. scott Kelly says:

    Hi Tom,

    I haven’t got an answer that works for all and I’m a little unsure regarding my own self-analysis on this topic but I’d venture a guess that, in my case, it’s a kind of compensatory strategy hinging on my need for a strong mother figure, something that I lacked as I was growing up. A strong, even harsh, female that enforced a rigid and challenging standard but who loved me unconditionally was what I evidently longed for.

    Best,

    scott
    Mrs. Kelly’s Playhouse

  9. endymion says:

    I would wager that the transformation from Vanilla-Housewife to The Domme(r) allows the reader to have two things:
    1. Association: “this could happen to me and my wife, too” – this allows the reader to imagine himself in the situation.
    2. Dissociation: The over-the-top domme is very clearly in fantasy territory. If the result of the story would be realistic, the reader might feel inadequate for not trying to introduce these changes into his own relationship.

    I think Devotional Sex has it right when he/she makes the comparison to Hollywood movies. Movies, too, often use a combination of familiarity and the fantastic in much the same way.

  10. Tom Allen says:

    I received this as an email from my long lost friend Lady Lubyanka

    Hi Tom,

    I think you’re right about the focus on his relinquishing power even tho his fantasies are in the driver’s seat. You may possibly have seen me rant on how “to be dominated” is a nonsensical action verb, in that it by definition requires somebody else’s actions entirely, with zero input from the speaker. Other than in my own examples, I don’t think I’ve ever seen the converse of wanting “to be submitted to”.

    Imagine a relationship with Mrs Edge with few-to-zero conflict-resolving discussions, in which she automagically
    – knew all your preferences with little-to-no input from you
    – indulged your preferences frequently and accurately, asking few-to-no questions
    – adapted all her requirements to more or less precisely fit all of yours

    So easy, right?

    On the other hand, a person who never learnt how to have functional social relationships which benefit all participants equivalently and healthfully? The countless thousands of angry angry misery guts we see train wrecking all over teh intartoobz? I think people in that position are more than likely to mistake this fantasy sex work model for “romantic social compatibility”.

    Oy vey.

    So, in these tropes, the fantasist freely and easily gets all his indulgement benefit without lifting a finger, no pesky conversating, no angsty conflict-resoluting, no wrenching self-examinating, no inconvenient conceding, no creative modifying, no alternative-think-upping, no idea-proposing for all to consider, just easy peasy “do me“, right?

    Too bad it’s just limited to sex work, eh? (NO NO NO IZ NOT IZ NOT IZ NOT IZ NOT). And anyhow the healthy functional relationship model iz SO DIFFICULT dernit and the fantasy model is SO ATTRACTIVE and WAY BETTER innit. Innit?? INNIT???

    tl;dr: Fantasy Model [equals] Real Live Fantasist [minus] His Responsibility To Considerately Negotiate With Real Live People

  11. Tom Allen says:

    For anyone: When someone can fantasize about pretty much anything, why pick an origin story, as it were? Wouldn’t it be more exciting to imagine the things you get into *after* she becomes more dominant? Why the focus on the transformation itself?

    • Mrs Fever says:

      This plays into the whole Cinderella effect, I think. Things just “magically” happen, and there is an overnight transformation from one role to another. And specifically, those things that just magically happen are not things he is doing/causing, but rather it is her. Which may have something to do with the giving up of control (like so many seem to believe), but really… Fantasizing that someone (She, whoever she is) is *taking* control is very different than actively handing over the reins. And it takes all responsibility (for communication, for working out the details, for owning one’s desires) off of his shoulders.

      I say this with (a somewhat cynical) a smile (or perhaps a smirk), but I’m inclined to agree with Lady Lubyanka on this point:

      So, in these tropes, the fantasist freely and easily gets all his indulgement benefit without lifting a finger, no pesky conversating, no angsty conflict-resoluting, no wrenching self-examinating, no inconvenient conceding, no creative modifying, no alternative-think-upping, no idea-proposing for all to consider, just easy peasy “do me“, right?

      And to answer your question about why the continual fantasizing about the “origin story” even *after* you’ve established a D/s dynamic…

      Because, reality.

      Reality means juggling kids and jobs and health issues and travel and grocery shopping and imbalanced libidos and headaches and mismatched schedules. Reality means WORK. Whereas the fantasy – this fantasy specifically, this origin-story fantasy – is easy. Because he doesn’t have to lift a finger.

      My two cents. 🙂 {For here.}

    • Richard Bonder says:

      How about a perfect combo of reality and fantasy? We like to see change and transformation. And power and giving away power in a “safe” way is a fun way to explore….

  12. I can think of two reasons for the focus being on the transition.

    The first is that the transition tends to be the most exciting and novel part.

    But the main reason I suspect is that it connects the fantasy to real life. If I were to fantasize about driving a $300,000 sports car then though this would be fun to do it feels like fantasy that has nothing to do with real-life because there is no explanation of how I could have got to this point.

    But adding a story of how I could get to drive such a car (the big fantasy part) and it then becomes me in the drivers seat. Hence with BDSM it is either the wife discovering her Domme side or it is a fantasy where the subject gets forced to comply (which would be blackmail, assault, kidnapping, etc) if it were not us knowing that the subject wants all this to happen.

  13. Caged Lion says:

    I think this root fantasy is based on a fairly universal mommy fantasy. That sounds weird but I think it is really oedipal fantasy we all have from childhood – mommy finds the naughty boy doing something sexual and he gets retribution. The adult version is much more explicit, but essentially the same. The dominant woman as mommy is an image that also comes up all the time. I suppose we like being reduced to the powerlessness of a child, except now it includes sex.

  14. slave_nemo says:

    You are so right, Tom. It seems every story out there runs the same gambit. But what most women don’t understand about fantasy is that all you need is the subject matter. The rest you make up as you go along. For example, I have one fantasy in which I am used for a CBT or masturbation demo at a play party. That’s all I tell her about it. What she does is to relate a few words to me about how she has been planning on using me for just such a demo at one the parties we will attend soon. She gives me all the details as she sees them, not as I see them. That way, I don’t know how the story will go or end. It’s much more exciting for me that way, and she doesn’t have to follow any script.

  15. rg says:

    This maybe a bit convulated and not universally applicable but still ….

    I think the basic pattern of these stories do 2 things:-

    1. Explain why you are not being the ideal man who can ‘satisfy his woman’.

    2. Simultaneously release you of the burden and punish you for nit fulfiling it while making sure that the woman is getting what she wants. While punishment is clear , they release you of the burden of guilt. Its not that you are being an asshole who doesn’t love his wife/gf to give her what she needs , rather you see her as a goddess who deserves better than just attention and sex from a man.

  16. rg says:

    The stories also somehow seem to explain the origin of s/m which in the stories lies on a continuum with vanilla relationships. Because men are bad who don’t pay attention to their wives, etc. Women get angry, dominating and controlling.

    Secondly the idea of the man losing interest in vanilla stories is usually related to not having the thrill of the chase, not having fear, danger and a challenge, there is no tease anymore, etc. So in d/s I think its kinda like a punishment (born of out a sense of guilt for being a man) for wanting the chase.

  17. Tom Allen says:

    That’s an interesting take on the subject. Thanks for your insights.

  18. Mykey says:

    Think it’s pretty simple, and several others touched on it. Endymion for example. I simply in perhaps a naive Way…

    My wife is less interested in sex than me, amount, Kink, whatever…

    This has long been a source of frustration and sadness (all too many marriages)

    Suddenly she’s interested. In fact so interested she wants even more than i did. Thus proving she really does like this stuff.

    The starving man has been given a banquet. His biggest frustration and greatest longing are met. He is happy.

    The end

  19. experiencefirst says:

    Hey sorry I’m late to the discussion, I just posted an article cataloguing role play fantasy in phases of intensity related to an evolving sexual identity of the submissive male masochist.

    I put this fantasy in ‘Loss of Self’ because I felt it was more intense than ‘Submissive Awakening where you are allowed to be who you want to and less than a ‘Rape Fantasy’ because it was just having your boundaries pushed a little in a way that you’d expect when you hand over what you want into a dominants hands to give her take on, that gives you that scary good feeling at having the control taken away form you. So it’s not really how you’d wish to express yourself as a submissive but it is a delicious experiment in loss of ego and control.

    http://stigmafreeworld.wordpress.com/2014/11/15/role-play-catalog/

  20. Pingback: In which Feve rambles about fantasies… | Temperature's Rising

  21. arafingol says:

    My two cents.

    I think people wish for things in two different ways. They wish for things they know they really want, in this case men wishing to be more helpless because it feels good. Then there is wishing for something they don’t [at first] want in real life, but fantasize about, in this case the harsh fetish scenario. These two types of wishing bleed over into each other, each one influencing the other and bringing them a little closer to the ground in between. Desires modifying other desires and thus modifying themselves. While the harsh fetish theme may not start out strong in a man’s imagination, it gains inertia, some of which is lent to it from the other, milder, theme of simple power loss. Neither end of the spectrum may be hugely popular as they stand alone, but in time the shift towards the middle ground is sort of like two opposing political parties vying for votes by trying to be more like each other and thus increasing the overall acceptance of the new compromises.

  22. b2please says:

    I found this thread very interesting and helpful. I have felt and behaved like most the people here that have posted. Luckily, my wife wants me to keep making efforts and taking initiative to find “win-win” sex play, chastity play and game ideas. That doesn’t mean it’s easy. I DO ask for crazy things that fit my fantasy ideas. But I’m actually willing to live out a LOT of my requests. BUT, I hope to find things that she is passionate about.

    Recently we had a list of a few concepts that I find so HOT I hoped some (most?) could be included in some way in our current chastity play. (Selfish, I know).
    AND I proposed that if we jotted down ideas (It’s 90% me jotting down ideas) the headings could be:
    Hot to me
    What you like
    What you might say
    What you might do

    The idea is I LIKE her to exaggerate a lot of this stuff, and it’s ok if she changes her mind or never planned on it at all. But there’s still some connection too. Like, on the topic of letting me “out for sex”. I think it’s hot lately that she talks about training me to be so good in bed she never needs to, or she’s keeping me in to train me to not “need” it, or she’s got a toy she likes better, etc. She likes letting me out pretty often. But she’ll TEASE more about keeping me in, and keep me locked sometimes. It will be unpredictable to me- totally.

    Hope this helps.
    Kink can be HARD to negotiate, esp. for long term play!! We say we want crazy things, then sometimes beg to get out of it, sometimes they like the begging. & on and on:)

  23. Six says:

    The appeal? Such stories replace repression with expression, and fear with affirmation.

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